of people through environments. so, one of the key aspects is ensuring that a property is beautiful, this it's functional, that it's welcoming and that it reduces the fears of crime, that it allows an environment where people take ownership and accountability for the properties that they occupy, either live, work or study in. >> kelly, really interesting and i don't mean to get too heady here but this reminded reading about it about the discipline and punish and talking about the design of the prison and the changes that the prison -- prison design had taken over the course of a century and the affect on the national psyche. and discipline through design. and what can happen there and i imagine it's very important to you to create space that is are safe but that don't feel oppressive and fortified. >> that's so true. it's -- you know, when you have an environment that is fortified that has these very blatant or obtrusive barriers or security features, what it causes is the people using the spaces to increase their a